Livia’s Transcript

SF: What first brought you to Canada? Did you already know anybody in Canada before you arrived?

Livia: My boyfriend… We met here…after one month we were supposed to be married. Because he called me here and before one month we were supposed to be married.

SF: You met him in Italy?  

(laughing)

respondent: We was neighbours…

SF: In your (home) town?

Livia: Oh yeah, near Venice. My town is Casacorba. My village.

Livia: We was neighbours. We grow up together almost, we play together in the back of the yard. Then I was sixteen and I start to date with him, and he came here 1951 in Canada to work. And he called me after two years 1953 I was here. I come with boat. And we married after one month I was here. We married. So we married and we stay two year in my …that’s not important for you …in rent two room.

SF: May I ask where you arrived before Guelph?

Livia: We came from Halifax, and then we have two days by train to come to here in Guelph. 

SF: Wow, what was that like? 

Livia: Nine days altogether from Italy to arrive here in Guelph, oh yeah. By boat because then nobody come by airplane, it was all boat you know. 

SF: And why did he (your husband) choose Guelph? 

Livia: Because he had four uncles older and one brother, everyone in Guelph.

SF: So there was a big Italian community… 

Livia: A lotta Tonin! (laughing)  

Livia: This why we came here. My uncle, when we was married, he rent us two rooms, thats all. But we stay only two years, that’s all and then we buy this house, 1956 we buy this house. And we was living in Alice Street just over here. 

SF: what was it like back then in the 1950s?

Livia: Imagine! Well, for us it was okay you know. I was happy to come because I know him very well like a brother. And I come to live better than when we was there, because it was hard. And in my family we was eighteen persons, eighteen! And we had only two rooms to sleep. And then the rest, all on top of the (incomprehensible) it was all open, you know, the second floor. We have four big beds, two each, you know. We was eighteen in the family. 

SF: Sixteen children?

Livia: No, my father have a brother. So my father, my side, we are eight brothers and sisters, and my uncle had six, brother and sister, and we always were together, you know, we worked as farmers. Farmer. But I have three sisters there but two is twins and they are two years older than me. And when we grow to (age) fifteen and sixteen, we go to Venice to serve the rich people. I’ve been near Milano another two years to make some money and give it to the family…to buy a pair of pants or whatever, you know. This was when I was young. ’Till I come here. Imagine how I was happy when I’m here with him, you know. For me it was the paradise, even if I don’t have nothing really necessary. But for me it was a paradise here, and after that I never cried because I was here. I never cried. A lotta people cry. “Oh far away, da da da” I never cry, I was happy all the time with my husband. Because I know what a life we… that was (back) there. Eighteen people; eight us and six is fourteen and the other four, you know, my mother, my father, my uncle, and my aunt. This is my story from when I was there. and imagine, you know, even (in) time for the war, it was very bad. 

SF: What was it like during the war? 

Livia: Oh, you can have everything you know. We have to buy even the salt like mercato nero, you know? You pay it and nobody know. We have to buy, they gimme some ticket for bread, but not very many, but we was a lotta mouths there to feed. It was bad you know, it was very very bad, even for working. And danger because luckily we was not very, you know, there was nobody guys (taken to serve in the army), the rest they take it away to Germany, you know. In the war, we didn’t have that because my sister was the oldest then. I was fifteen when they finished the war but it was started in ’39, finished ’45. And then my sister was two years older than me, seventeen, eighteen years, yeah. I remember when they bombardar (bombed) Milano, Venezia, all round you know, Padua, all around there, oh so many die. We was scared, eh, very very dangerous time, yeah. So this is my story when I was young.

SF: and after the war you started to work in service? 

Livia: oh yeah, but no (only) not after the war, even (during) that time because people there, if they are even teacher they need a babysit like, or you know, you go to the house, you do whatever you gotta do, and they pay very little though. Not much either, but we was happy to be out (rather) than, you know, than all together there. For me it was better because I remember I was more hungry there, you know. We was very..when you’re young you’re hungry eh, you never have a full stomach I think.

SF: yeah…

Livia: Because all these people…I say, I’m not sure, but I say if I (had) eat (en) like here, the youngest, I grow more taller. For sure, for sure. And I was skinny all the time, why because we don’t have enough. You know what we have? We have a cow, in (on/near?) the step, you know. Then we have the milk, then it was the one (upon which) we grow up. Fresh milk. And then my mother make, you know, the butter and ricotta, oh yeah, everything for the milk. Lucky we have that! 

SF: Yeah, and fresh milk is the best. I buy fresh milk, now on the black market because it’s illegal in Ontario. But it’s the best and it makes kids strong. I believe in it but I don’t want to get into this big long topic too much here but I have a friend who is in big trouble with the government because he sells raw milk. So it’s a big problem right now. I don’t want to go too far into that, but that’s a great thing, if you have your own cow, that’s the best. 

Livia: If you like milk, its very good for you. Okay so this is what is was like when I was young and then when I come here.

SF: how long was the boat ride from Italy to Halifax?

Livia: nine days and then two days from Halifax to Guelph because the train, it wasn’t go fast, it’s like the one they ride the cows in now, you know. ba-ba-boom ba-ba-boom, and they stop so many times and we was so tired. But I came here with another two very close..to my uh town there, two girls. They came to get married too, but one she goes to Niagara falls, the other to Hamilton. 

SF: you traveled together?

Livia: Together. From Genoa, from where we catch the boat. 

SF: What did you bring with you? 

Livia: Very little. (laughing) You know, we went… my husband was home (Casaborba) before (I came) to come…we get engage. No, no it’s a not this, now I tell my story, when I catch the boat, I have my ring you know and I don’t want it destroyed or…when I go to the bathroom in the boat, I take it off and I put it on the sink because I say oh now, you know, the soap will go inside…you know, scared to ruin like, you know, but it was not ruin it. I take it off and I wash my hands, I don’t know know. And then I go (incomprehensible) (sdraiarebino??) dov’è che ero dormire, insomma, fre mi due friend, e ho dett “Mamma mia, I take it off my ring, I forget, run right away back, I don’t find no ring no more. See this is my story in the boat too. So I said, I gotta go to uh the one in charge of the boat there, the what they call, whatever, and they told me with the, what you call micro? yeah, if they find in time, the ring, to me and then he say, I give it back to you. How you find a ring there? It’s gone. When I arrive here I say “Gino” his name’s Gino, I say, “You know what, I loose your ring” and he said, “doesn’t matter” he said, “as long you’re here” and I’m scared because I always watch, you know, not to put it (on) too much, you know. So this is my story for the ring but it was very little clothes (in the) suitcase, a few necessary stuff because he told me “don’t buy much if you get some money, (it’s) for the family.uh We paid, you know, we had for the trip.” So this is what I do, the money they give me they don’t give me much and what they give me, you know, I give it to the trip guide (incomprehensible). Because he said when you here, the style is different and you buy what you need it. Imagine. I came with a suitcase thats all. From Italy. A few clothes to change, a few towel, I don’t even remember what I had but I had very little.

SF: How did you communicate with Gino from Italy?

Livia: With write, writing letters back and forth, back and forth.

SF: do you still have them?

Livia: No, no not that. I still have one (story?picture?) for you but not that, no. By that time it was not the chance for the phone like now. And I say so many times, Mamma mia, when I have my mother, write, you know back and forth, back and forth, she was kinda old, to write back and there was not a chance for….now the phone. Ninety-nine cents, if I wanna…I talk so many times to my sister. Ninety-nine cents for an hour. I got a the number 10-10-7-10 and then the number, I got two brother in Australia and I got three sister in Italy, I phone so many times. (laughing) When I am lonesome, when I have nothing to do, when I feel like to talk to somebody. And they got all news, you know, to tell me, you know. We don’t write no more, I don’t write no more, I even can’t sign my paper (incomprehensible) (laughing) and for school, just I got to grade five, there was no university then that time. No university in Italy, (in) my time. Now they’re like over here, I think sometime for me, I don’t know, maybe better, what do you think?

SF:  Yes, there are very good universities in Italy. So what were your first two years like in Guelph?

Livia: I loved it. Because I was with him. I don’t see nothing else then. (laughing) when you’re young and in love, you know, long time you don’t see each other….

SF: and the people around you….?

Livia: oh, everybody was beautiful. But we was a lotta Tonin’s, a lotta relations, you know. A lotta Tonin’s, sometimes too many! (laughing) 

Livia: And before I was married, my cousin was living where Sarah lived. First cousin of my husband, and she make a shower for me, you know. And I have Gino’s brother, he was married and they made another shower, my sister-in-law. And for me it was…every thing was new…everything…I never see it. Everything, it was so beautiful. Even if they bring, you know a cup a sauce, that time or a pair of pillowcase, or a cup sauce (cup and saucer). Like this (she shows me) this is Italian. That time they do.

SF: this is the gift that your sister-in-law gave to you when you first arrived?

Livia: Oh yeah, this one yeah. (pointing out various things in her china cabinet)

SF: So, another question I have is what obstacles or barriers did you encounter as a new immigrant to Canada? Did you have any difficulties or problems when you first arrived?

Livia: No. Even for speaking, we were speaking Italian all the time.

SF: So everybody you interacted with spoke Italian?

Livia: spoke Italian, all the Tonin’s came from Casacorba, relations of Gino. Even for another small villages, another here, another there (nearby) we know a lotta those people too you know because a lotta Italians here coming in Canada.

SF: so there was this (neighbourhood) community…the church 

Livia: The Sacred Heart Church is our church

SF: and the Italian Canadian Club…?

Livia: When my uncle, Gino’s uncle was living there (up the street?) they start building the church, it was mostly Italian people. The want people to give some money (donation) and they do something in the church (dedication?) 

Livia: The club, I would play bocci every Tuesday night.

SF: Was the club already formed when you moved here?

Livia: Oh yes, two big halls for the wedding and then there’s another little hall if you wanna do a shower or small party, then there’s the part where we play bocci, another big, you know… Four… quattro righe dove si puo giocare. It was here when I came here, you know, I always remember it was there. One time there was a lot a lot of Italians, now its nobody else. And the kids, they don’t go there to play bocci or play cards, like the times of Gino, you understand what I mean? Now, its very very very….a lotta people die, eh and they don’t got much (people/attendees) Only the hall, I think, they do parties, you know, weddings, stuff like that. It’s a beautiful club.

SF: did you bring anything else with you from Italy when you came to Canada? You already answered that, just one suitcase right? 

Livia: and I loose my ring (laughing) but I don’t care, its gone, what are you gonna do? 

Livia l’estratto

Intervista con Livia Tonin:

Ho avuto il grande piacere di parlare con Livia Tonin a casa sua il 17 marzo 2016. Livia Tonin è una vicina di casa di mia sorella con cui ho fatto due chiacchiere un paio di volte nel corso degli ultimi anni. Prima di questa intervista, non sapevo nulla della sua storia personale, a parte che è un’immigrata italiana e che vive in Canada da molti decenni.

Mentre mangiavamo della torta deliziosa e bevevamo del caffè al tavolo della sua cucina, ho ascoltato la storia meravigliosa di Livia, che abbracciò la vita a Casacorba, suo paese natale, durante la Seconda guerra mondiale, per poi imbarcarsi in un lungo viaggio da Genova a Halifax, sposarsi e creare una famiglia nel suo nuovo paese. Sono rimasta affascinata dai molti dettagli personali riguardanti la sua vita, che affiorano a livello orale, ma non sono presenti nei documenti storici. L’esperienza che lei ha vissuto è inestimabile.

Per cominciare, ho chiesto che cosa portò Livia in Canada inizialmente. Sono venuta così a sapere che il suo fidanzato era arrivato qui due anni prima di lei e poi l’aveva invitata a raggiungerlo a Guelph nel 1953; questo significa che lei ha trascorso sessantadue anni qui.

Livia Tonin viene da Casacorba, un paesino vicino a Venezia. Viveva in un appartamento di due stanze con la sua famiglia di diciotto persone: la madre, il padre, otto figli e gli zii con sei figli. Tutti dormivano insieme in quattro ampi letti e sul tetto. Lavoravano tutti in un allevamento e avevano una mucca, col cui latte sua madre era solita fare il burro e la ricotta. Durante la Seconda guerra mondiale, le cose erano particolarmente difficili e Livia ricorda di aver ricevuto buoni pasto per il pane e il sale acquistati al mercato nero. Anche se erano molto spaventati per le bombe sganciate su Milano, Venezia e Padova, la sua famiglia è stata fortunata perché nessuno dei ragazzi aveva l’età per entrare nell’esercito. A Livia piaceva lavorare fuori casa come baby-sitter o per aiutare le persone con delle faccende in giro per la città. Anche se lei veniva pagata molto poco, le piaceva passare del tempo fuori casa perché era molto affollato lì dentro. Livia ricorda anche la fame costante e scherza riguardo al fatto che, se avesse mangiato nel modo in cui fanno i bambini qui, sicuramente sarebbe diventata più alta. La guerra finì quando Livia aveva quindici anni: si traferì Venezia e passò due anni a Milano di servizio alle persone ricche. A circa sedici anni, si fidanzò con Gino, un ragazzo di Casacorba con cui era cresciuta. Lui aveva dei parenti in Canada e nel 1951 vi emigrò dall’Italia.

Gino diede a Livia un anello di fidanzamento che lei apprezzò molto e di cui si prese molta cura. Durante il suo viaggio dall’Italia a Canada, Lidia ha raccontato di aver lasciato accidentalmente l’anello accanto al lavandino del bagno della nave. Appena si rese conto che non c’era più, in preda al panico, corse indietro ma, non trovandolo, fu rassicurata dalla persona responsabile che le disse che, nel caso in cui fosse stato ritrovato, sarebbe tornato a lei. Naturalmente non lo vide mai più. Quando arrivò a Guelph e lo disse a Gino, lui rispose che non importava, ciò che era importante era il fatto che lei era arrivata. Il suo viaggio faticoso durò undici giorni: nove in nave da Genova a Halifax e altri due in treno da Halifax a Guelph. Il treno era lento e Livia ha detto che lei e altre due donne con cui viaggiava erano estremamente stanche. Quelle due ragazze venivano dalla sua stessa regione e stavano pere sposarsi, una a Niagara Falls e l’altra a Hamilton. Durante il viaggio, Livia non aveva portato molto con sé, solo una valigia con pochi vestiti, un paio di asciugamani e un orologio sveglia. Una volta arrivata a Guelph, Livia ha detto di non aver avuto nessun problema. Aveva pianificato di sposare Gino un mese dopo il suo arrivo. Fu accolta da amici e parenti che organizzarono la festa di fidanzamento e le regalarono una tazza e un piattino. Quasi tutti quelli con cui interagiva nella sua famiglia e nel quartiere (The Ward) parlavano italiano, quindi la lingua non era un ostacolo. Livia ha detto che alcuni immigrati piangevano e avevano nostalgia di casa, ma lei non ne aveva affatto. Il Canada era un paradiso per lei e non rimpiangeva mai di aver lasciato l’Italia o la sua famiglia.

Livia ricorda con affetto la costruzione della Chiesa del Sacro Cuore qui a Guelph e di come giocava regolarmente a bocce e a carte all’Italian Canadian Club.  Alla fine della nostra intervista ho fatto delle foto del dono che ricevette, la tazza e il piattino, e anche della vecchia sveglia che lei aveva portato con sé in valigia. I figli di Livia sono diventati grandi ormai: qua sopra sono visibili immagini di loro, dei suoi nipoti, e anche foto in bianco e nero del suo matrimonio e dei suoi parenti. Sono rimasta veramente colpita dalla sua storia. Il mondo da cui proveniva era così diverso da quello a cui è poi immigrata. Immagino il coraggio che ci è voluto per salire su quella nave a Genova, spinta dal desiderio d’iniziare una nuova vita. Lei, come tanti altri, ha sopportato così tanto con grazia e coraggio e le sono molto grata per aver condiviso con me le sue riflessioni.

Queste storie non dovrebbero mai andare perse, ma devono essere apprezzate ed entrare a far parte della nostra comprensione collettiva della storia dell’immigrazione italiana in Canada.

Livia vive ancora nella stessa casa che comprò nel 1956 con Gino e con orgoglio dice che, dato che aveva risparmiato molto, non aveva avuto bisogno di chiedere un prestito. Dopo aver finito i nostri caffè, ci siamo lasciate con affetto: ha detto che spera che io viva tanto a lungo quanto lei – non riesco nemmeno ad immaginarmelo! È stato interessante fare l’intervista e trascriverla. Ascoltando la registrazione più volte, ho potuto comprendere meglio la storia di Livia e apprezzarne i minuziosi dettagli. Mi sono chiesta se debba includere gli errori grammaticali che caratterizzano il parlato. Alla fine, ho deciso di essere il più fedele possibile a ciò che è stato detto e di non modificare molto. Ho cambiato la punteggiatura e la struttura, ma, per quanto fosse possibile, sono stata fedele alla versione di Livia. 

Per quanto riguarda la trascrizione, inizialmente pensavo che sarebbe stato un lavoro noioso, dovendo ascoltare più volte la stessa intervista, ma, con mia grande sorpresa, l’ho trovato molto interessante e mi è piaciuto molto. Nonostante dovessi trascrivere solo due pagine come estratto dell’intervista, ho voluto che il mio contributo riflettesse il più possibile la nostra conversazione e la storia che Livia ha condiviso con me, e ho quindi trascritto tutta la mezz’ora di conversazione. La storia della sua infanzia durante la guerra e della perdita del suo anello a bordo della nave sono dei piccoli tesori.

Livia’s Photos